Re: [proaudio] Thoughts about menu entries and usability

[Dominique Michel <dominique.michel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Le Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:43:53 +0100,
Thomas Kuther <gimpel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit :

> On Di, 06.02.07 19:52 Dominique Michel <dominique.michel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> 
> > Le Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:14:55 +0100,
> > Thomas Kuther <gimpel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit :
> > 
> > > On Di, 06.02.07 14:57 Yves Cochard <yves.cochard@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi
> > > > 
> > > > Yeah that's a good idea!
> > > > 
> > > > Acutally, I use only separator to separate the seq/synth/other
> > > > sound stuff...
> > > > 
> > > > But I don't know how it's possible to manage the entry for the
> > > > apps? Will they all be here by default, wheter the apps are
> > > > install or not? (and then just remove the apps which aren't
> > > > installed manually by ticking in the menu editor of xfce4?)
> > > 
> > > No, that would be only for apps that are actually installed. Means,
> > > only for apps that have a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications
> > > 
> > > I'm just reading about default toplevel categories:
> > > http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-desktop-menu.html
> > > 
> > > And about known additional categories:
> > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-1.0.html#category-registry
> > > 
> > > So by FDO standards a menu would look like this:
> > > 	Sound & Video
> > > 	--> Audio
> > > 		--> Sequencer
> > > 		--> Mixer
> > > 		--> Midi
> > > 		--> Recorder
> > > 		--> AudioVideoEditing
> > > 
> > > Those are available standard categories, I would say this is
> > > even specific enough. No need for extra ebuild magic \o/
> > > 
> > > The ebuild writers/maintainers just have to take care that for
> > > example LMMS installs the .desktop file with category
> > > 	"AudioVideo;Audio;Sequencer"
> > > and it should appear in the right place.
> > 
> > I will take a look at those files. Most wm support the freedesktop
> > norm, but it is some wm as fvwm that don't support it. Debian have a
> > "menu" package that take care of it for any debian supported wm. That
> > implies at on debian, a dev must not only provide a .desktop file but
> > also some entries for the menu software.
> > 
> > It will be great to make a program that will do it on gentoo. 
> > -- 
> > Dominique Michel
> > 
> > --
> > N.B.: Tous les emails que je reçois sont filtrés par spamassassin
> > avant de me parvenir.
> 
> There were already some attempts to do this, for example:
> http://denu.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Unfortunately discontinued :(
> 
> Currently I have some sort of solution for KDE, GNOME and E17. But
> that's WAY far from being a real solution, as I took 
> /etc/xdg/menu/applications.menu - but that file comes from the
> gnome-menus package, and against what I though, not even XFCE respects
> custom changes in ~/.config/menus to this file.
> 
It is in fact why I switched from fluxbox and xfce to fvwm-crystal. Crystal
menu system is simpler to setup and manage and it will not break in case of wm
upgrade.

To add an application in Crystal, it is just to add a file with the command that
will launch the program in the right category. Each category have its own
directory structure and anything is allowed. Crystal use this directory
structure and the name of the files to generate the menu on the fly at startup
time or with a click in the exit menu. It is even possible to specify the order
of the programs in the menu with the syntax of the filename.

> I really know now why almost any WM seems to use it's own menu system,
> just KDE<-->GNOME are quite compatible, and E17 works purely with fdo
> specs, so it can handle GNOME and KDE menus...
> And I also know now why there is no really good menu editor (that also
> handles fdo categories). kmenuedit and alacarte are nice ones though.
> 
> Bah this is really weird, for now I give up on this big mess again.
> 
> Respect to debian! 
> 

Yes.

I think at it will be simpler today to make something that will use
the .desktop files. To use those files will solve the problem for at least gnome
and kde. After, each other wm is a case. As I use Crystal, I can try to do
something for it. It will a script that use the .desktop files.

Another approach will be to do a general program as the Debian menu that will
take care of searching for the .desktop file and of generating the needed menu
with the help of some kind of "syntax" process for each possible wm. But I
don't think at a single person can do that.

Ciao,
Dominique