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***
Even at the smaller size, though, the team=E2=80=99s attention to detail me=
ans they
weren=E2=80=99t satisfied with the usual square pixels used in emulated ver=
sions of
NES games. =E2=80=9CThat's not how that game would have displayed on a CRT
television,=E2=80=9D Cifaldi said. =E2=80=9CIt would have been a little bit=
wider=E2=80=9D because
of the way the NES converted its video signal to horizontal scanlines. =E2=
=80=9CIf
you were to actually measure the pixels on a CRT television from an NES
output, it's not actually one to one, it's more like 8 to 7. So [our images
are] stretched a little bit horizontally, which I don't think has ever been
done in a commercial emulation project."
***
/Troed
On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Eero Tamminen <oak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 06/19/2017 09:44 PM, Nicolas Pomar=C3=A8de wrote:
>
>> Le 19/06/2017 =C3=A0 20:40, David Savinkoff a =C3=A9crit :
>>
>>> To get these aspect ratios, I think stretching the y-axis is better
>>> than shrinking the x-axis.
>>> Use SDL2 or add extra scan line every 10th line?
>>>
>>
> That would look absolutely horrible.
>
> In general, any scaling that is done close to 1.0 ratio
> will look horrible, regardless of whether one uses filtering /
> blurring for it. That kind of aspect ratio correction works
> only for analog devices where the size/shape of the actual pixels
> change.
>
> It could be workable with larger scaling factors (say at least 4x),
> if one applies suitable filtering.
>
>
> How much 'monitor emulation' should be done in Hatari?
>>>
>>
>> >
>
>> Eventually, some CRT like filters (as in MAME or WinUAE) could be used
>> to emulate curved CRT monitor and scanlines (as well as zooming), but I
>> don't think anyone has time to work on this at the moment.
>>
>
> IMHO more important concern with CRTs, than the aspect
> ratio, is the pixel color behavior, it:
>
> 1. color bleeds:
> https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=3D29647137#p29647137
> https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=3D29651175#p29651175
>
> 2. switches state gradually, not instantly like LCD i.e. makes
> movement looks much smoother (a bit like motion blur)
>
> To emulate that well, needs a monitor that has
> much higher refresh frequency, so that one can emulate
> pixel switching gradually from one color to another
>
>
> - Eero
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">From the thread you linked to - apparently comments by Nin=
tendo's own developers on the topic of pixel aspect ratio:<div><br></di=
v><div>***</div><div>Even at the smaller size, though, the team=E2=80=99s a=
ttention to detail means they weren=E2=80=99t satisfied with the usual squa=
re pixels used in emulated versions of NES games. =E2=80=9CThat's not h=
ow that game would have displayed on a CRT television,=E2=80=9D Cifaldi sai=
d. =E2=80=9CIt would have been a little bit wider=E2=80=9D because of the w=
ay the NES converted its video signal to horizontal scanlines. =E2=80=9CIf =
you were to actually measure the pixels on a CRT television from an NES out=
put, it's not actually one to one, it's more like 8 to 7. So [our i=
mages are] stretched a little bit horizontally, which I don't think has=
ever been done in a commercial emulation project."<br></div><div>***<=
/div><div><br></div><div>/Troed</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Eero Tamminen <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:oak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx"; target=3D"_blank=
">oak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">Hi,<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
On 06/19/2017 09:44 PM, Nicolas Pomar=C3=A8de wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
Le 19/06/2017 =C3=A0 20:40, David Savinkoff a =C3=A9crit :<br>
</span><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
To get these aspect ratios, I think stretching the y-axis is better<br>
than shrinking the x-axis.<br>
Use SDL2 or add extra scan line every 10th line?<br>
</blockquote></span></blockquote>
<br>
That would look absolutely horrible.<br>
<br>
In general, any scaling that is done close to 1.0 ratio<br>
will look horrible, regardless of whether one uses filtering /<br>
blurring for it.=C2=A0 That kind of aspect ratio correction works<br>
only for analog devices where the size/shape of the actual pixels<br>
change.<br>
<br>
It could be workable with larger scaling factors (say at least 4x),<br>
if one applies suitable filtering.<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
How much 'monitor emulation' should be done in Hatari?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Eventually, some CRT like filters (as in MAME or WinUAE) could be used<br>
to emulate curved CRT monitor and scanlines (as well as zooming), but I<br>
don't think anyone has time to work on this at the moment.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
IMHO more important concern with CRTs, than the aspect<br>
ratio, is the pixel color behavior, it:<br>
<br>
1. color bleeds:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=3D296=
47137#p29647137" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://arstechnica.c=
om/<wbr>civis/viewtopic.php?p=3D<wbr>29647137#p29647137</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=3D296=
51175#p29651175" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://arstechnica.c=
om/<wbr>civis/viewtopic.php?p=3D<wbr>29651175#p29651175</a><br>
<br>
2. switches state gradually, not instantly like LCD i.e. makes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0movement looks much smoother (a bit like motion blur)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0To emulate that well, needs a monitor that has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0much higher refresh frequency, so that one can emulate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pixel switching gradually from one color to another<span class=
=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Eero<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
--94eb2c05e4fc69ba6c0552763b8b--