[translations] Re: Another patch & questions

[John Mandereau <john.mandereau@xxxxxxxxx>]

Le mardi 22 décembre 2009 à 09:26 +0100, Harmath Dénes a écrit :
> (BTW, the 'Ancient notation templates' node has the following comment:
> 
> @c bad node name to avoid node name conflict
> 
> and in the menu:
> 
> @c bad node name for ancient notation to avoid conflict
> 
> What does this comment mean for us?)

(It's a reminder for documentation editors in English that a node name
should be unique, which implies that some node names are intentionally a
bit weird.  The node name unicity requirement also holds for
translations.)


> > ** Unknown command with braces `@insertcopying' 
> > ** Unknown command with braces `@insertcopying' 
> > ** Unknown command with braces `@insertcopying' 
> 
> That's strange, because it appears with braces as @insertcopying{} in
> the English original too (in macros.itexi and web.texi). Should I
> remove the braces from the translation? 

No, I just fixed this in all languages (in my working tree, will push as
soon as my other changes compile fine).


> > WARNING: Unable to find node 'Szövegszerkesztői támogatás' in book usage.
> > WARNING: Unable to find node 'Tanácsok LilyPond bemeneti fájlok írásához' in book usage.
> 
> These are links in the tutorial to nodes in usage I already translated
> but not the target node titles. Should I revert the links to the
> original or translate the target node titles, or just leave alone
> both?

Does the following paragraph I'm adding to the CG in "Translating the
Learning Manual and other Texinfo documentation", just after the
paragraph that introduces @untranslated, answers your question?

"""
@warning{you do not have to translate the node name of a cross-reference
to a node that you do not have translated.  If you do, you must define
an @qq{empty} node like explained just above; this will produce a
cross-reference with the translated node name in output, although the
target node will still be in English.  On the opposite, if all
cross-references that refer to an untranslated node use the node name in
English, then you do not have to define such an @qq{empty} node, and the
cross-reference text will appear in English in the output.  The choice
between these two strategies implies its particular maintenance
requirements and is left to the translators, although the opinion of the
Translation meister leans towards not translating these
cross-references.}
"""

BTW, I'm adding this paragraph too:

"""
If you wonder whether a word, phrase or larger piece of text should be
translated, whether it is an argument of a Texinfo command or a small
piece sandwiched between two Texinfo commands, try to track whether and
where it appears in PDF and/or HTML output as visible text.  This piece
of advice is especially useful for translating @file{macros.itexi}.
"""


>  (Anyway, this is exactly a consequence of the information duplication
> I mentioned - references to a text should *not* depend on the text's
> exact translation.) 

(References to a node should use the exact node name, I don't see why
this rule shouldn't apply to a Texinfo document in a language other than
English.  That said, we probably agree that there is still much to do to
make translation of Texinfo documents more comfortable.)


> That latter may be the case, since I use Eclipse to maintain the
> translation, which is very convenient, but consumes most of my RAM. On
> second thought, with enough free RAM, the process is not significantly
> faster, so I'm planning to upgrade from 2 GB to 3 or 4 for
> Christmas. :) 

I sincerely hope MacOS X handles well so much memory. Really, I'm a bit
pissed that my X server eats so much of my 4 GB just for 3D desktop
effects, so I haven't tried to demonstrate that GNU/Linux is always
technically better :-)


> Yeah, the MacBook's HD may be not the top, and maybe OS X's different
> behaviour also plays a role. However, I can't do much against it.

In an ideal world we wouldn't have so much HTML postprocessing with
regular expressions; currently Texi2HTML offers some flexibility but
it's quite cumbersome to use it.  We generally suffer from the lack of a
proper way of representing and manipulating a document, its output and
its connexions with other documents (including translations) in all
Texinfo formatters.


> > Sure, all node names should be translated, I don't see why Manuals and
> > Community should be an exception.
>
> There is only web.texi, introduction.itexi and download.itexi among
> the 1st priority files, that's why I was confused. But do you mean
> that all node names of chapters, sections etc. in all web files should
> be translated in manuals.itexi and community.itexi (and maybe other
> files) also?

Again, that's your choice: this is the same problem as what I explained
above about texi2html warnings "Unable to find node".


> I always do git pull -r. After a bit of investigation, I learned that
> surrounding it with git stash and git stash pop sometimes helps.

Certainly. It's recommended to have a clean working tree when pulling,
which means committing or junking all changes before pulling, but it's
not always practical in real life.  Generally speaking, if you think
such a real life situations should be described in the CG, please send a
request and the text you'd like to add (a patch would be best but not
necessary) to -devel list.

Best,
John

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