Re: [hatari-devel] symbols not always loaded when entering debugger ?

[David Savinkoff <dsavnkff@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hatari has so many options that higher level options are needed.
These higher level options should be default 'user friendly' RTFM_not
(see ffmpeg as an example). I don't know what a call-graph is, and
that part of the manual scares me.

----- On Nov 17, 2017, at 3:47 PM, Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 11/18/2017 12:34 AM, Nicolas Pomarède wrote:
>> Le 17/11/2017 à 22:43, Eero Tamminen a écrit :
>> Yes, but my problem is "simple" : I want to code a program for STF/STE
>> that will run on real HW. I don't have specific memory or OS needs, but
>> it's just that in the past there where some difference between TOS and
>> emutos about HW init (for example microwire init could be different).
> 
> I confess, I had in mind also potential improvements to EmuTOS. :-)
> 
> 
>> I prefer to work the other way around : make sure the program works with
>> real TOS and then in the end check it works with emutos too.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> [...]
>>> I think I'll provide an extra script that invokes Hatari
>>> with options that configure it more suitably for debugging.
>>> It can be installed alongside Hatari.
>>>
>>> Would "hatari-debug" be OK name for it?
>>>
>>> Besides the "symbols resident" thing, I think by default it
>>> should use "--trace os_base", and have some shorter option
>>> (-e?) for "--debug-except".
>>>
>>> It can output some debugger usage info (e.g. note about
>>> "setopt -D"), and start a terminal for Hatari output if
>>> user didn't start it from terminal.
>>>
>>> Anything else?
>> 
>> But why yet another script and some shorter options when it would be
>> much simpler to make the above default in normal Hatari ?
> 
> Before it's going to be default, it needs to be tested
> (couple of weeks of use with Atari binaries linked with
> different libs & linkers should be enough).
> 
> Such a script will help you and other debugger users in
> doing that.
> 
> However, I think something like that could be also of more
> general use.  So, please consider what such a script
> could & should do.
> 
> 
>> If you agree that another script could be needed to make debugging
>> easier in the scenario I reported, then the simplest would be to change
>> the default to keep symbols resident.
> 
> By extending the same reasoning, why Hatari shouldn't
> invoke debugger on every exception?
> 
> (Debugging use-cases are different from non-debugging
> use-cases and debugging settings can have downsides for
> normal emulator usage.  While not as drastic, automatic
> symbol loading for terminating programs can also have
> downsides, at least it generates extra output to console.)
> 
> 
>> I'm afraid people won't read doc or look for what such or
>> such script is doing.
> 
> I wonder how they happened to run Hatari in the first place.
> By accidentally installing and running Hatari, when their
> cat ran over the keyboard, perhaps? :-)
> 
> 
> 	- Eero