Re: [AD] END_OF_MAIN removal patch for msvc

[Thomas Fjellstrom <tfjellstrom@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On November 18, 2008, Paul Suntsov wrote:
> If I may butt in, but reducing choice and forcing people into a single (and
> flawed when it comes to games, in my opinion) paradigm only to remove a
> single macro is not the right solution.

Yeah, I'm not sure going whole hog on the event system is the right direction, 
but neither are hacks like END_OF_MAIN.

> --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Stefanos A. <stapostol@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > From: Stefanos A. <stapostol@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: [AD] END_OF_MAIN removal patch for msvc
> > To: tfjellstrom@xxxxxxxxxx, "Coordination of admins/developers of the game
> > programming library Allegro" <alleg-developers@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 5:39 PM
> >
> > On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 14:48 -0700, Thomas Fjellstrom wrote:
> > > On November 18, 2008, Peter Wang wrote:
> > > > On 2008-11-18, Thomas Fjellstrom
> >
> > <tfjellstrom@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > Wait, didn't allegro specifically go to
> >
> > an event loop and whatnot to get
> >
> > > > > around this little problem? al_init()
> >
> > initializes any internal lib state,
> >
> > > > > and the event loop gives allegro time to
> >
> > "do its thing" when needed
> >
> > > > > without having an explicit
> >
> > al_update_allegro(); api.
> >
> > > > No, that's not what the event system was
> >
> > designed for and that's not how
> >
> > > > it works.
> > >
> > > Probably not.
> > >
> > > So whats the alternative then? Try and be too clever?
> >
> > or just export a simple
> >
> > > update function?
> > >
> > > What do you prefer?
> > >
> > > > Peter
> >
> > If I may make a suggestion, it might actually be better to
> > make the
> > event system mandatory. I am not up to date with the
> > current A5 API (I'm
> > only familiar with the old design docs), but in pseudocode
> > this would
> > look something like:
> >
> > int main(void)
> > {
> >     al_init();
> >
> >     AL_WINDOW* window = al_open_window(...);
> >     al_register_event(window, AL_MOUSE_INPUT, [callback]);
> >     al_register_event(window, AL_WINDOW_RESIZE,
> > [callback]);
> >     al_register_event(window, AL_WINDOW_CLOSE, [callback]);
> >     al_register_event(window, AL_WINDOW_IDLE, [callback]);
> >     al_run_events(window);   // Blocks until al_exit.
> >
> >     return 0;
> > }
> >
> > In this case, the game loop fits perfectly inside the
> > AL_WINDOW_IDLE
> > event handler:
> >
> > void idle(Window* window, [callback args])
> > {
> >     while (al_is_window_idle(window))
> >     {
> >         // Here goes the game loop, which looks like A4.
> >     }
> > }
> >
> > Advantages of this design:
> > 1. The event loop runs alongside the user code just fine -
> > no hacks.
> > 2. Clean and consistent API.
> > 3. Fits modern APIs (e.g. XNA, where Shawn is working now,
> > follows the
> > exact same model).
> > 4. Fits the way modern operating systems work.
> >
> > Disadvantages:
> > 1. Paradigm shift from A4.
> > 2. Event-based only.
> > 3. Can only be emulated in older operating systems, e.g.
> > DOS (does
> > anyone even care anymore?)
> >
> > I know there have been extensive discussions about the A5
> > api, so feel
> > free to disregard any of this. However, my experience from
> > coding a
> > similar library is that this is the way to go.
> >
> > (The library is OpenTK, which is pretty much Allegro for
> > Mono/.Net.
> > Indeed, Allegro has proved a great source of information.)
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move
> > Developer's challenge
> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK
> > & win great prizes
> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event
> > anywhere in the world
> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> > --
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alleg-developers
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win
> great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere
> in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/


-- 
Thomas Fjellstrom
tfjellstrom@xxxxxxxxxx