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On May 17, 2004 07:33 am, Ben Davis wrote:
> On Monday 17 May 2004 14:16, Chris wrote:
[snip]
> > > From your other e-mail it sounds to me as if you're willing to have a
> > > game clip as much as it likes just because it's not going to wrap when
> > > it does so.
> >
> > Right, because the wrapping is much more noticeable than simple
> > clipping. And if the clipping is bothersome, the user can simply lower
> > the volume.
>
> Most users will naturally reach for the volume control on their speakers,
> which obviously won't solve the problem. The game developer has to take
> some responsibility; if someone sets a ridiculously high value with
> set_volume_per_voice(), that's their fault. We can't be removing a much
> used, and very useful IMO, feature just to try to save the game developer a
> bit of responsibility.
Much used? By whom? (I hope I got the usage right) And why? Just to override
the obviously wrong default 1/4 volume level?
> > Nothing's preventing a program from implementing a default volume that
> > the programmer safely feels accomodates the voices. I feel that's a
> > better method than relying on the max voice count to limit voice volume.
>
> But we're not relying on the max voice count; that's only the default. If
> it's set, we're relying on the parameter to set_volume_per_voice().
IMO each voice should dynamically get whatever volume it can get. none of this
set_volume_per stuff. Have two voices? Have 10 voices? They get as much as
they can without sounding like crap :)
> > I can, yes, but except for the default setting for set_volume_per_voice
> > I can't say I agree with it. And if memory serves, even Bob agreed (on
> > IRC) that he'd like the default set_volume_per_voice raised now that
> > warpping isn't an issue.
>
> Would I be right in assuming you mean "as for" rather than "except for"?
>
> > > In the long-distant past, Allegro always made samples quite quiet (a
> > > centred sample would be one quarter of the maximum volume), and made
> > > them even quieter if you requested more voices. This was someone's
> > > decision, and would be appropriate sometimes, but is too quiet for a
> > > lot of cases.
> >
> > Which is exactly my point to raise the default. It's too quiet most of
> > the time and makes people think the Allegro mixer is inferior because of
> > it. I can't pretend to know Shawn's true intention for limiting the
> > voice volume by default, but if I had to guess I would say it's because
> > the possiblity wrapping was too great, which is no longer true (let
> > alone possible) with my patch.
>
> So how about a compromise: raise the default but make sure any program that
> calls set_volume_per_voice() will behave the same as before?
>
> > > I hacked my own version of Allegro to play everything louder, and I
> > > think you did the same at one point, didn't you, Chris? But this was
> > > again a personal decision that was appropriate for my games and
> > > wouldn't be appropriate for everyone's.
> >
> > Right, but with set_volume_per_voice, we don't even have that choice
> > without changing the program in question.
>
> I don't know what you did, but I, as a _game developer_ (not an end-user),
> hacked Allegro for the purposes of building binaries for a couple of my
> games. set_volume_per_voice() meant I no longer had to do this.
which shouldn't even be nessesary IMO.
[snip]
--
Thomas Fjellstrom
tfjellstrom@xxxxxxxxxx
http://strangesoft.net