[tablatures] Fwd: TAB question

[Valentin Villenave <v.villenave@xxxxxxxxx>]

For archival purposes, I am forwarding to the tablatures list some
previous discussions that may have taken place privately or on the
LilyPond-user mailing list.

- Valentin


Forwarded conversation
Subject: TAB question
------------------------

From: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2008/12/30
To: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


"Trevor Daniels" <t.daniels@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> "Note: Harmonics must be defined inside a chord construct even if
> there is only a single note."

Thanks.
While on the topics of TABs,

 \relative c' {
   \new TabStaff {
     \new TabVoice {
       c4 d c e8 e |
       c4 d e2 |
     }
   }
 }

Shouldn't the 'e2' be rendered without a stem?

-- Johan


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----------
From: Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2008/12/31
To: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx, Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>



Johan Vromans wrote Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:20 PM It would seem
so, but what do people who know about
tabs think?

Trevor
----------
From: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2008/12/31
To: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


AFIK there are two kinds of TABs. The simple kind just has numbers to
indiciate string positions. This is used in ASCII TABs. Notes do not
have length information.

The other kind, as used by LilyPond, attaches stems to the numbers,
just like ordinary notes. In the OP example there are quarter notes
(with a simple stem), eight notes (with a flagged stem) and a half
note that I would expect to have no stem.

-- Johan

----------
From: David Raleigh Arnold <dra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/1
To: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


If there is also a proper notation staff, and there should be one unless
the user is either copying ancient lute music or engaged in some
criminal activity, there is no point in having stems in the tab. See
the banjo pieces on my site.  Remove engravers in the tab so that the
tab consists in only fret numbers and string lines. That is the default
in some typesetters, and it should have been in lilypond, because that
would have made good typesetting far easier. I found it best to
have two parts in the notation staff code and combine them into one in
the tab staff block. Clumsy, but you can't argue with results. That way
you have a fighting chance to see how it sounds. With this method, the
tab staff is nothing more than the orderly presentation of fingering.
necessary for banjo, helpful for lute, bad for guitar unless a variant
tuning is being used. Regards, daveA

--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html :::: You can play the cards
you're dealt, or improve your hand with DGT.  Very easy guitar
music, solos, duets, exercises, etc.  draTrapVISIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----------
From: Grammostola Rosea <rosea.grammostola@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/1
To:
Cc: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


Would be great if tablature for guitar in Lilypond will be improved imho.
----------
From: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/1
To: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


As you say: "If".
I'd say this is slightly exaggerated ;) .
For many purposes, it is not necessary to have a proper notation staff
with the TAB. LilyPond already provides the right stems and flags, so
why not use these?

-- Johan

----------
From: Ian Hulin <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/2
To: "lilypond-user@xxxxxxx lilypond-user" <lilypond-user@xxxxxxx>


If you do this, how can the tab reader tell whether the notelength is e2 or e1?

How do you tell anyway now whether it's e4 or e2?

Cheers,
----------
From: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/2
To: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


This question is not related to e2 having a stem or not...

I can imagine a stemless number with a circle arout it, or something
like that.

That's why my primary question is what the TAB standard is (are).
e4 has a stem (just like an ordinary quarter note)
a2 should not have a stem (just like an ordinary half note)

-- Johan

----------
From: Jonathan Kulp <jonlancekulp@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/2
To: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


I don't think there are any standards for tablature.  There are many
different traditions according to historical eras and geographical
locations.  As someone who has always read standard notation, I would
be really confused by tab that didn't have regular stems/flags and
stuff. But then I find any tablature laborious to read.  It's just my
lack of experience with it. Err...ordinary half-notes have stems,
don't they?

Jon
--
Jonathan Kulp
http://www.jonathankulp.com
----------
From: David Stocker <dstocker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/2
To: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "lilypond-user@xxxxxxx"
<lilypond-user@xxxxxxx>


Hal Leonard, probably the largest single producer of TAB books uses a
note staff and TAB staff combination. It's my opinion that this is the
optimal way to display guitar music if you're using TAB because it's
the most unambiguous: music information is clear to non-guitarists and
fretboard position is clearly indicated which can be significant on
fretboard instruments to achieve certain effects like campañella. The
use of TAB avoids cluttering the note staff with too many bits of
information (like left-hand fingerings in addition string number
indications). If you're using a TAB staff with no note staff, I think
the best way is to use stems on the fret-numbers to indicate rhythm.
Dotted notes simply have a dot like on notes in a note staff and white
notes are indicated by placing a circle around the 'notes'. It would
be nice to see these features available in LilyPond.

If the developers are interested, I'm able to provide many examples of
printed guitar tablature in various formats from various publishers (I
spend my work life in this area). I've talked about it before on this
list, but I'm interested working with other users to increase LilyPond
support for fretted-instrument tablature. I'm not a programmer, so my
contributions would be limited (at least at first) to consulting on
appearance and placement of elements.

Dave
----------
From: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/2
To: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


I stand corrected.
(Phew, my first blooper of 2009...)

-- Johan

----------
From: Jonathan Kulp <jonlancekulp@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/2
To: Johan Vromans <jvromans@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: lilypond-user@xxxxxxx


You got it out of the way early ;) Mine will be coming soon, I expect...
----------
From: Grammostola Rosea <rosea.grammostola@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/5
To: David Stocker <dstocker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "lilypond-user@xxxxxxx" <lilypond-user@xxxxxxx>


Any comments on this great offer from David? Would be nice if
tablature in Lilypond would be improved...
Or do we need to sponsor such developments?

Kind regards,

\r
----------
From: David Stocker <dstocker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/1/5
To: Grammostola Rosea <rosea.grammostola@xxxxxxxxx>,
"lilypond-user@xxxxxxx" <lilypond-user@xxxxxxx>


I think I just need to take initiative with this. I've been thinking
about it for a while and what I'll do is in my spare time (what's
that?) I'll catalog some 'missing features' that would lead to better
tablature support and include visual examples from published music. We
can circulate it around on the list and everyone can add to it. Then,
the 'fretted strings' crowd can build a consensus on prioritization.
That way, there's a list of proposed features that contributers can
consult if they wish.

Can you prod me every so often so I don't get absorbed in work/life
and leave this on the shelf for too long? Just a simple 'how's the
list coming?' if I don't post anything for a few weeks.

Regards,

Dave
----------
From: Grammostola Rosea <rosea.grammostola@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/2/13
To: David Stocker <dstocker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Wilbert Berendsen <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"lilypond-user@xxxxxxx" <lilypond-user@xxxxxxx>


Any progress here? David?

When I use a template in Frescobaldi for electric bass it doesn't
seems to work, I get a error message, see below. Besides that, the
tablature is placed above the notation by default which is not how it
should be imho. Also  the  tablature has beams, which is odd for
tablature...

Regards,

\r





global = {
 \key c \major
 \time 4/4
}

electricBass = \relative c {
 \global
 % Muziek volgt hier.
 e,4\4 g\4 a\3 d8\3 c\3 e2\4
}

\score {
 \new StaffGroup \with {
  \consists "Instrument_name_engraver"
  instrumentName = "Electrische bas"
 } <<
  \new TabStaff \electricBass
  \new Staff \with {
    midiInstrument = "electric bass (finger)"
  } { \clef bass \electricBass }
 >>
 \layout { }
 \midi {
  \context {
    \Score
    tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 100 4)
----------
From: David Stocker <dstocker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2009/2/13
To: Grammostola Rosea <rosea.grammostola@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Wilbert Berendsen <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"lilypond-user@xxxxxxx" <lilypond-user@xxxxxxx>


Thanks for the poke. I'll try to get nominal list together this
weekend of about a half-dozen or so things tabbers are missing. Right
now, I'm open to suggestions on where to start. Bends? Ligado
techniques?

Also, since this will inevitably involve email attachments of image
files, I'm proposing that we circulate this off list. I'll send a
follow-up email and anyone on the list who wants to receive and
contribute to the "guitar tab feature request" can email me and I'll
make a distribution list of the respondents. At a later time, we can
submit "guitar tab feature request v.1.0" to the developers and maybe
start talking sponsorships.

Best,

Dave



--
Regards,
Valentin