| Re: [hatari-devel] Falcon speed |
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Hi,
On torstai 08 toukokuu 2014, Thomas Bergstrom wrote:
> The measurement is CPU Load of the 68030. CPU usage per game frame.
Ah, OK, I got confused by references to Windows and different laptops. :-)
Those are external factors and don't affect the CPU emulation.
> I just found it strange that my and Laurent's experiences was so
> different. In Laurent's case, Hatari is always faster than a Falcon but
> in my case it is 30% slower when enabling Cycle Exact and Prefetch mode
How do you measure the CPU consumption on 030?
And is DSP running?
(You could check whether you see same difference with "--dsp none")
> which makes it a bit hard to know how much work can be put on the CPU
> and still keep the frame rate on a real Falcon.
Have you used Hatari profiler? That shows how many emulated
cycles Hatari spends on each instruction in your code:
http://hg.tuxfamily.org/mercurialroot/hatari/hatari/raw-
file/tip/doc/manual.html#Profiling
If you see in that output something suspicious, it would be
great if you could provide a more isolated use-case demonstrating that.
- Eero
> I was curious to hear other peoples experiences regarding this. I use
> Hatari alot and think it's fantastic, just have to find a way to deal
> with this "problem".
....
> >> I started a game at the same level without playing anything, so these
> >> are game "idle" CPU Load numbers:
> >>
> >> Machine CPU Load
> >> --------------------------------
> >> Falcon 58.05%
> >> Hatari, CE&PFM Disabled 41.61%
> >> Hatari, CE&PFM Enabled 76.51%
>
> > Are you measuring Hatari's CPU usage, or running game under MiNT
> > in Hatari and using e.g. "top" to see your game's CPU usage under MiNT?
> >
> > If you're measuring Hatari's CPU usage, more accurate emulation
> > needing more CPU "works as expected".
> >
> > - Eero
> >
> >> Tried on both laptops, both give the exact same numbers. As you can
> >> see Cycle Exact and Prefetch Mode slows Hatari down to be quite alot
> >> slower than the real thing. The Hatari version I was running was
> >> built Jan 2:nd.
> >>
> >> I run the windows version, maybe the difference is in Windows vs.
> >> Linux?
> >>
> >> Perhaps it's the data cache but would that really have that much
> >> impact?
> >>
> >> Get the feeling that there is some option/setup that's missing or so..
> >>
> >> Br,
> >>
> >> /Thomas
> >>
> >> On Wed, 7 May 2014, Eero Tamminen wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Hatari WinUAE CPU core doesn't emulate 030 data cache.
> >>>
> >>> According to comments by Douglas about his experience
> >>> on optimization things related to that in Bad Mood, code
> >>> using data cache well works faster on real Falcon than
> >>> in Hatari.
> >>>
> >>> - Eero
> >>>
> >>> On keskiviikko 07 toukokuu 2014, laurent.sallafranque@xxxxxxx wrote:
> >>>>> Disabling them results in a much faster Falcon. Strange that we get
> >>>>> so different results
> >>>>
> >>>> If you say that it's strange that disabling cycle exact and prefetch
> >>>> mode does much different results and when they're enabled, that's
> >>>> normal. The table of cycles for the new cpu core is applied only for
> >>>> this configuration.
> >>>>
> >>>> In non cycle exact mode, or non prefetch mode or in MMU mode, each
> >>>> instruction takes 2 cycles (which is wrong of course)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If yo say that what is strange is hatari speed on your machine and
> >>>> on mine, I agree. I've got a demo that seems to run slower on
> >>>> hatari than on my real falcon (underscore demo if I'm right) (it
> >>>> starts in a tunnel, then, there's a 3d object with motion blur,
> >>>> then, a kind of maze in 3D DSP (that crashs under hatari at the
> >>>> moment).
> >>>>
> >>>> Except this demo, I always detect that hatari runs faster than my
> >>>> falcon (but I'm running my falcon in VGA, this may change my
> >>>> perception of speed).
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Laurent
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Mail original -----
> >>>> De: "Thomas Bergstrom" <tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> À: hatari-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Envoyé: Mercredi 7 Mai 2014 09:51:55
> >>>> Objet: Re: [hatari-devel] Falcon speed
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Hmm. When enabling both cycle exact and prefetch mode I think Hatari
> >>>> is close to real Falcon speed. That goes for both my laptops, one
> >>>> AMD A4 and one Intel i5. Disabling them results in a much faster
> >>>> Falcon. Strange that we get so different results. I have the same
> >>>> configuration as you except that I have the blitter emu disabled.
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps my memory is misleading me, I will do some more tests and
> >>>> get back. :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Br,
> >>>>
> >>>> /Thomas
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, 7 May 2014, laurent.sallafranque@xxxxxxx wrote:d
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Thomas,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Falcon emulation is not speed accurate actually, neither cycle
> >>>>> accurate.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For example, the current dev version of Racer runs in 3 VBLs under
> >>>>> Hatari, whereas it runs in 5 VBLs under my Falcon. (Hatari is 2
> >>>>> VBLs faster than the real machine).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On my fast computer, hatari is always faster than my real Falcon
> >>>>> (anyway I choose cycle exact, prefetch mode, or not).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Hatari parameters I use for Falcon emulation are :
> >>>>>
> >>>>> CPU : winUAE core (hatari_falcon exe)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> CPU Type : 68030
> >>>>> CPU clock : 16 Mhz
> >>>>> Falcon DSP : Full
> >>>>>
> >>>>> CPU parameters :
> >>>>> 24 bits addressing : ON
> >>>>> Prefetch mode, slower : ON
> >>>>> Cycle exact, slower : ON
> >>>>> Real time clock emu : ON
> >>>>> Patch Timer_D : OFF
> >>>>> Blitter emu : ON
> >>>>> MMU emulation : OFF (except if you need special apps, but
> >>>>> MMU emulation is not cycle accurate at all)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> FPU : 68882
> >>>>> More compatible, slower : ON
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> TOS : 4.04 Fr
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Memory : 4 or 14 megs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The cycle exact mode is the one that allows the most programs to
> >>>>> work (but if you use the old CPU core (hatari.exe) in Falcon mode,
> >>>>> the timings are again different and some rare programs that don't
> >>>>> work with the ne core works with the ols one (like the MOAI96 demo
> >>>>> by Mikro)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The MMU emulation CPU interprets all the CPU instructions (MMU,
> >>>>> CPU, FPU) in 2 cycles, no matter the instruction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's still work to do before hatari becomes an accurate Falcon
> >>>>> emulator, but it's already useable and quite efficient with many
> >>>>> programs ans demos.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Laurent
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Mail original -----
> >>>>> De: "Thomas Bergstrom" <tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> À: hatari-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Envoyé: Mercredi 7 Mai 2014 09:05:23
> >>>>> Objet: [hatari-devel] Falcon speed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just wonder if there are any bench figures of Hatari Falcon. I
> >>>>> get the feeling that if you enable "cycle exact" and "prefetch
> >>>>> mode" you get a slightly slower Falcon than the real thing. And if
> >>>>> you disable those you get a CT2 or Nemesis speeded Falcon. Any
> >>>>> measurements made?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just recently joined the list so my appologies if this has been
> >>>>> discussed alot before...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Br,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /Thomas, New Beat