Re: [chrony-users] Chrony forgets servers (specified by FQDN) when no DNS server

[ Thread Index | Date Index | More chrony.tuxfamily.org/chrony-users Archives ]


There are two questions here:
a) chrony drips a source if the dns does not deliver a valid IP for that
server.
b)What should the the underlying philosophical stance be of a program like
chrony to the use of DNS.

I was answering the first, not the second. You had a problem, chronyd was
dropping servers if dns failed. My suggestion was how to get around that. You
have now expanded this discussion into the second question.

I would mildly dispute your contention that when the server administrator says
you should use dns, that is a contract term, which the user has the moral
imperitive not to violate. I suspect that most operators of servers would be
surprized at that interpretation, but would rather say--"Look, I could at any
time change the IP, and then you as user would be stuck". After all they also,
as in your example, publish their IP address for the server. Surely that line
is as important in one's interpretation as the useDNS line.
 Would it be nice if chronyd could recover on its own a loss of dns access?
 Sure. Is it a bug if it does not? I would say maybe but not one for which
 there is agreat urgency for it to "fixed". And also this is a separate
 (though related) issue to your original question "How can I solve my problem
 of loss of servers when my router goes down".
You have apparently implimented my suggestion as to how to solve that
question, despite your moral qualms about that implimentation.

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017, Rob Janssen wrote:

Bill Unruh wrote:


In that list of servers, there is a field for each NTP time provider, "Use DNS".  Many of the public servers in this table require that DNS be used with their service.  Here is one entry from the table:

There is absolutely no way they would know if you are using dns or not. All
communication with the server is via IP, and whether that is static IP or dns is unknown. The primary reason they say that is that they reserve the right to change the IP address of their server and if you are using a static address,
there is no way you will know, except that it will not work anymore.

It is in the "terms of use".  A reason to do this could be that they want to offer this service now, but want to have some way to terminate it in the (far) future.  When they do no longer want to offer NTP service, they can remove the name from DNS and the usage of the service should disappear over time.  Only those that did not abide this rule will remain.  And with most NTP services, they will remain anyway for as long the service is running, which of course could be a couple of years for a few users.  But most of them should be gone in a couple of months.


It is not a rule, and is not something they could know whether you are abiding
by it or not.

Remember that if they change the IP of the server, it can take up to 3 days
for that change to propagate through the set of DNS servers, so again they
cannot enforce their "rule" (which is not a rule anyway)


Do you think that rules are only valid when they can be actively enforced?
I think not.  I think rules set by the provider of the service are there for the users to abide to, and when they
don't like the rule their option is not to use the service.

A time server that uses DNS based rules for reference servers should fail gracefully when the DNS does not return an IP address (anymore).  So, when it does a lookup only once it should issue an error message about that server, and proceed its startup as if that server was never there in the configuration.  When it is resolving DNS names on a regular basis (e.g. once per day), it could keep the server configuration and keep retrying the DNS lookup at
that same interval and start using the server when the DNS lookup succeeds.
Not starting the service at all is only an option when all the DNS lookups have failed (i.e. there is no server) and there is no mechanism to re-try the lookups.  When there is, it is much better to keep the service running. (after all, a network may not be available at boot time and may become available later)

Rob


--
To unsubscribe email chrony-users-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
with "unsubscribe" in the subject.
For help email chrony-users-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
with "help" in the subject.
Trouble?  Email listmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.


Mail converted by MHonArc 2.6.19+ http://listengine.tuxfamily.org/