Re: [non-daw] question about control sequences

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Hi John,

The functionality I require is one that I know is requested often by those working in field of sound collage, musique concrete and any area whose needs are not strictly musical but still require complex parameter control synced and aligned tightly to events in the waveform. As such, there are only two multitrack audio arrangers native to gnu/linux (that I know of at least) that serve to fill this need, at least in theory.

More specifically, the control sequences need to be easily edited underneath a visible waveform so that the sequence events can easily be aligned to both the timeline and the visible events in the waveform. This also allows multiple control sequences to be visually aligned in the same fashion. As far as I know, only Ardour and your non-daw deal with control sequences in this manner. (Muse2 may do this, but is far too unstable to be usable). All other sequencing software under gnu/linux seems to relegate control sequences to second class status and subsequently hide them in a piano roll pop up window.

The problem with Ardour, at least in the 2.x branch, is that it doesn't send external control parameters - its control sequences can only control internal plugins. (I know 3.x will do this, but in all reality that'll be a long time coming) I have software running under multiple machines and I want my arranger to manage control parameters for all this software. Non daw, as I said looks suitably light in features - my workflow wouldn't get bogged in the complex routing and audiofile management that encumbers Ardour. To be fair, though, it misses two things for me - the current issue of sending external control parameters, and the ability to record parameter changes from external midi/osc control surfaces. I suspect that the second at least is outside of the scope of what you want non daw to be.

In all honesty, if I had any kind of coding skill I'd like to develop something along the lines of radium (http://users.notam02.no/~kjetism/radium/) with added audio tracks using vertical waveform scrolling. I've never really enjoyed working with the horizontal waveform regime that dominates daws and audio editors, although I do understand its heritage and technical reasoning. So I endlessly mockup interfaces and workflow ideas for an arranger that will probably never exist!

Anyway, thanks for your consideration. I've written probably more than you have the time to read!  In the meantime, you might like to know, I've finally managed to get a workaround that at least will get me productive again. There is a set of ladspa plugins that allow sending osc messages from one host to another, and using puredata to convert the osc to midi, I've been able to use this to allow ardour to control other software parameters. It's cumbersome, but for now it works.

regards

Michael

On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:14 AM, <male@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Perhaps if you told us more about the requirements of your
environment/workflow... If it's complex MIDI control you
desire, that can be achieved (probably with greater
flexibility than any integrated solution) with any JACK-sync
aware (preferably JACK-MIDI) sequencer running along side
Non-DAW. Probably ditto with OSC. If the functionality you
require is missing from the Linux-audio ecosystem, then the
solution is to fill the gap with a comprehensive,
cooperative solution--not necessarily pile functionality
into a monolithic DAW. It's that kind of thinking that I've
been trying to break away from.

On Mon, May 25, 2009, michael noble wrote:
> John
>
> Thanks for your reply. I've tried spiral synth modular and I like the
> concept, being a fan of the spiral looper. Unfortunately, for my needs I
> need a more standardized control sequencer to control external hardware and
> software. So while I appreciate your approach for its simplicity, I can't
> make the switch.
>
> Thanks anyway for answering my question.
>
> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:36 PM, <male@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> > You're right. Currently only CV style output is supported.
> > MIDI and OSC have to wait. The only piece of software I know
> > of that accepts CV is SpiralSynthModular (which can use a CV
> > signal to control a LADSPA plugin, among other things). What
> > CV means in this context is instead of using the range of
> > floating point values between -1.0 and +1.0 on a JACK port
> > to represent the instantaneous voltage of an audio signal,
> > they are used to represent the current setting of some
> > parameter as a point between two poles.  It isn't that
> > outputting MIDI or OSC is a huge project, just that both of
> > them require their own little user interface to setup. A CV
> > signal is far more generic in that it doesn't have to be
> > bound to any specific port or parameter by the emitting
> > party.
> >
> > On Fri, May 22, 2009, michael noble wrote:
> > > hi
> > >
> > > I haven't tried out your software yet, but I do enjoy the refreshing
> > > approach to aduio sequencing with only the base essentials. As you say,
> > in
> > > true linux spirit.
> > >
> > > Before I compile, I'd like to get some more information about control
> > > sequences if I can.
> > >
> > > On the main website it states "Anything may be controlled by a control
> > > track, including external software supporting OSC or MIDI control"
> > >
> > > However, on the manual is says "A control sequence can be used to control
> > > anything that can accept CV style input"
> > >
> > > Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is CV style input in the scope of
> > OSC
> > > or MIDI? I mean, I know what it it in the world of analog synths, but
> > I've
> > > only seen it used sparingly in the digital realm in the sense of
> > "virtual"
> > > control ports. Do i need to translate these signals somehow, given that
> > the
> > > majority of software doesn't accept CV style input? Can you reccomend
> > some
> > > software to act as an intermediary to allow non daw to control say ladspa
> > > plugins in jack-rack?
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Michael Noble
> >
> > --
> > May 22 2009,
> > John Moore Liles
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> networking practice for sound environments :: http://nowhere.iamnobody.net

--
May 25 2009,
John Moore Liles





--
networking practice for sound environments :: http://nowhere.iamnobody.net


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